Feb 1, 2023

Attendees:

Agenda: 

  • Topic 1: Merge of Virtualization EG and Containerization EG
    • Synergy of the two EGs towards most hot topic in automotive world "Software-defined Vehicle" is the main reason
    • Jerry will be the leader of the whole EG to coordinate overall activities
    • Original container EG members will continue paticipate and contribute in the new EG
      • AWS will lead the development related containerzation part → Megan Knight is looking for candidates
      • No worry about decreased activities about conternization
    • New EG will continue the three keywords defined by Dan Cauchy to strengthen AGL advantages in SDV
      • Virtualizaiton
      • Conternization
      • Cloudification
  • Topic 2: Recent Events
  • Topic 3: Feature List
    • By   (AB meeting in )
    • Virtualization on  
    • Containerziation on  
    • Define the requirements of AGL for Software-defined Vehicle
      • Virtualization (hypervisor, device virtualization "VirtIO)
      • Conternization (application container and orchestration)
      • Cloud-native
    • Clearly define the use case that the group as a whole has consesus and develop a prototype that community members can work together (link with IC, IVI-EG):  A pure OSS solution using both virtualization and conternization
      • Question: How to meet the "ready to product" requirement
      • See any thing that Virtualization&Container can facilitate Flutter Application  Bernard Craddock
      • Check if any one from BMW would like to share some opinions on the usage of container Walt Miner , Nedeljko Miljevic 
      • Some hints and collaboration from SOAFEE? Maybe connect withMatt Spencer again
    • Virtualization
      • VirtIO in HV
      • VirtIO in non-HV
      • VirtIO across Multi-ECU
      • VirtIO in Cloud-Native
    • Conternization
      • Determine Container Type suitable for automotive use case:
        • LXC
        • Docker
        • ???
      • Evaluate the usage of application container inside AGL
      • Find/develop an OSS container engine and orechestrator (k3s?) fitting for AGL use case
    • Cloudification
      • Cloud-native Environment
      • Cloud service
      • CICD cloud infrastructure

Feb 15, 2023

Attendees:

Agenda: 

  • Topic 1: Merge of Virtualization EG and Containerization EG
    • New Member: Francesco Salamida Principal Architect. Working with major OEMs about connectivity and SDV. Well experienced in Linux for decades.
    • New Name: Virtualization & Containers EG
      • Maybe coming some better and fancy names easy for remembering? Like "Software-defined Vehicle EG"
        • Having a fancy name with "Software-defined Vehicle EG"
          • Welcome to propose better name by  
        • And clearly defined the scope of the EG in technical perspective
      • Any other proposal?
  • Topic 2: Recent Events
  • Topic 3: Feature List
    • By   (AB meeting in )
    • Virtualization on  
    • Containerziation on  
    • Define the requirements of AGL for Software-defined Vehicle
      • Virtualization (hypervisor, device virtualization "VirtIO)
      • Conternization (application container and orchestration)
      • Cloud-native
    • Clearly define the use case that the group as a whole has consesus and develop a prototype that community members can work together (link with IC, IVI-EG):  A pure OSS solution using both virtualization and conternization
      • Question: How to meet the "ready to product" requirement
      • See any thing that Virtualization&Container can facilitate Flutter Application  Bernard Craddock
      • Check if any one from BMW would like to share some opinions on the usage of container Walt Miner , Nedeljko Miljevic 
      • Some hints and collaboration from SOAFEE? Maybe connect withMatt Spencer again → Francesco Salamida is working directly in SOAFEE who can be good bridge.
    • Virtualization
      • VirtIO in HV
      • VirtIO in non-HV
      • VirtIO across Multi-ECU
      • VirtIO in Cloud-Native
    • Conternization & Orchestration
      • Determine Container Type suitable for automotive use case:
        • LXC
        • docker
        • container-d
        • podman
        • ???
      • Evaluate the usage of application container inside AGL for IVI/IC use cases
        • implementaiton in SOAFEE is lacking graphic perspectives which has higher weight in AGL (SOAFEE is targeting more for ADAS/AD features)
      • Find/develop an OSS container engine and orchestrator (k3s?) fitting for AGL use case
    • Cloudification
      • Cloud-native Environment
      • Cloud service
      • CICD cloud infrastructure

Mar 1, 2023

Attendees:

Agenda: 

  • Topic 1: Merge of Virtualization EG and Containerization EG
    • New Member: Francesco Salamida Principal Architect. Working with major OEMs about connectivity and SDV. Well experienced in Linux for decades.
    • New Name: Virtualization & Containers EG
      • Maybe coming some better and fancy names easy for remembering? Like "Software-defined Vehicle EG"
        • Having a fancy name with "Software-defined Vehicle EG"
          • Welcome to propose better name by  

        • And clearly defined the scope of the EG in technical perspective

          • Voting to setup offline with open votes to all community members 
            (but to be fair to active EG participants, weighted voting will be selected)

            Naming OptionsComments
            Virtualization & Containerization EG

            Virtualization EG

            Workload Orchestration EG

            Software-defined Vehicle EG




      • Any other proposal?
  • Topic 2: Recent Events
  • Topic 3: Feature List
    • By   (AB meeting in )
    • Virtualization on  
    • Containerziation on  
    • 2023 Roadmap
    • JIRA tickets to be created for tracing each features and defined sub-features as sub-ticket


Mar 21, 2023

Attendees:

Agenda: 

  • Topic 1: AMM or EW
    • Successful AMM with 
  • Topic 2: Steering Communitee
    • Voting started
    • QA/Clarification about meeting will be arranged in SAT/EG
    • Proposal of VOS actities next year start from next EG and need some offline discussions
  • Topic 3: Whitepaper
    • Michele to suggest use with New Bing
    • Walt Miner to check with OEM's/AB's favor in participating the whitepaper drafting
    • Future of AGL?
      • AB/SC feature to have a champion
      • More focus on how to get people involved not on technial scope (new boundary of AGL)
    • A preliminary Whitepaper draft to be done by  
      • Title, Abstract, Index, Outline for the contents
      • Draft


Apr 4, 2023

Attendees:

Agenda: 


  • Topic 1: Feature List of EG
    • https://jira.automotivelinux.org/secure/Dashboard.jspa?selectPageId=11800
    • Purpose should be stressed before going to detailed development.
      • Pipewire - libcamera with Flutter. 
      • Linux track for SDV better than G/A
      • Challenges of Mercedes in using OSS
        • Engamement with them may be one option
    • Concern on using docker in automotive
      • Need to be first define whether workload orchestration is useful in AGL use cases -> Need discussion in AMM Tokyo
      • Fact is that current there are no apparent use case in IVI so discussion should be important
        • Show one possible use case in the meeting to trigger the discussion on exploring other use cases (seed demo)
        • Gaps of SOAFEE stacks in terms of production - whether AGL members will really use those stack in product
        • Contribute as a demo is okay but whether some one will use will be another problem
      • Francesco Salamida  is using containerd is his demo (which main purpose is to show environment parity with container in the connectivy use cases - Fleetwise)
        • k3s + containerd
      • Path
        • ADAS
          • Existing in SOAFEE
          • What's the enabling technology for people?
            • k3s
            • What need to be in the software stack for people to reproduce the work by themselves?
          • Proprietary stacks in ADAS containers
          • Maybe not interested to SC members → ? need discussion in SC
        • Connectivity
          • Francesco demo
          • Maybe not interested to SC members
        • IVI
          • No existing use case → extremely hard to come out use cases and implement
          • Interested to most SC members
  • Topic 2: Steering Communitee
    • Voting started
    • QA/Clarification about meeting will be arranged in SAT/EG
    • Proposal of VOS actities next year start from next EG and need some offline discussions
  • Topic 3: Whitepaper
    • (Joke) Michele to suggest use with New Bing
    • Walt Miner to check with OEM's/AB's favor in participating the whitepaper drafting
    • Future of AGL?
      • AB/SC feature to have a champion
      • More focus on how to get people involved not on technial scope (new boundary of AGL)
    • A preliminary Whitepaper draft to be done by  
      • Title, Abstract, Index, Outline for the contents
      • Draft


Apr 18, 2023

Attendees:

Agenda: 

  • Topic 0: New member:
    • Jas Dua - GSoC
    • Paul - Harman, ADAS
    • Sandro Bonazzola - Red Hat (RHIVOS)
    • Prasad - KPIT
  • Topic 1: Name Change
  • Topic 2: Feature List of EG
  • Topic 3: Virtual Open System Proposal for Funded items
  • Topic 4: Continue container discussion
    • Workload Orchestration
      • workload: a way to package application either to be VM or container
      • workload orchestration: how to schedule/deploy the pacakge inside one SoC or across multi-SoCs
      • Povisioning of SoC for the criticaility of the orchestration - provision problem
  • Topic 5: White Paper


May 16, 2023

Attendees:

Agenda: 

  • Topic 0: Walt Minner
    • SDV-EG have all features ranked in top 10 SC voting (no.1~4 are all from SDV)
      • SDV - VirtIO
      • SDV - Container Orchestratioin
      • SDV - Unified HMI

Jun 13, 2023

Attendees:

Agenda: 

  • Topic 1: Topics from SC
    • Non-hypervisor Work (virtio-loopback) has been approved by SC
      • Possible volume adjustment might happen due to overall over budget
      • Results of adjustment will be based on SC & AB discussion until July 
    • Start of work: Walt Miner will collect necessary documents and will coordinate with Michele Paolino . Hopefully work can be started from July.
  • Topic 2: Feature List of EG

    • SDV-EG  features got high ranks from SC vote (all entered top 3) 

      RankOriginal IDTask
      1SDV-003

      Further extend and enhance VirtIO as a common AGL device virtualization framework to decouple AGL software from underlying SW&HW platform on both physical ECU in edge and virtual ECU in cloud.

      2SDV-005

      Develop a prototype of workload orchestration & deployment starting from single SoC environment (workload examples: container, thin VM, posix process and etc.)

      3SDV-001Define the requirements and use cases of Software-defined Vehicle with AGL, focusing on the environment parity & workload orchestration
      4SDV-004

      Integrate Display Virtualization solution "Unified HMI" into AGL UCB to actualize cross-ECU/processor device virtualization

      7SDV-002Implement PoC with step-by-step MVPs containing key enabling technologies (Device Virtualization, Workload Orchestration and etc) for SDV to fulfill the requirements and use cases defined.
    • SDV-EG dashboard https://jira.automotivelinux.org/secure/Dashboard.jspa?selectPageId=11800
    • Non-hypervisor features have been created and assigned to Michele Paolino as sub task of overall virtio activity ticket SPEC-4743
      • SPEC-4834
      • SPEC-4835
      • HW: M3 Starter Kit (already depreciated) → RcarH3 AGL Reference Hardware: Jerry is checking with OpenSynergy to get back the board.
        • Kernel version for RCarH3 is 5.10 → old kernel (question) maybe a blocker for the development possibly → Michele Paolino  to check
  • Topic 3: AMM ~  
    • CFP by  
      • Jerry, Jiancong Zhao to give an overall speech about whole EG activities
        • Michele Paolino  to give a session (remote) about virtio loopback → Confirmed
        • Kenta Murakami -san to give a session (onsite) about Unified HMI → Confirmed 
        • Francesco Salamida  to give a session about workload orchestration (need to check)  → Nenad Ilic will check if any possiblity to give a presentation
        • Naoto YAMAGUCHI -san will also give a speech from IC-EG for the upstreaming progress.
  • Topic 4: Unified HMI Integration to AGL UCB
    • Presetnation of plan from Fumiya Kohzu -san
    • Commit is estimated to happen in a week and after commit see which release should be integrated.
  • Topic 5: Future AGL Work Focus Topics

Aug 29, 2023

Attendees:

Agenda: 

  • Topic 1: CES Demo AGL Official Demo
    • Waiting for Walt come back to decide what topics to be presented in official demo
  • Topic 2: Unified HMI Re-commit Review
  • Topic 3: Non-HV VirtIO activities


Sep 19, 2023

Attendees:

Agenda: 

  • Topic 1: Topic form SAT
    • Inter-VM Communication
      Wait until kazuki kuzu -san come back to lead the discussion (wink)

  • Topic 2: Non-HV VirtIO activities
  • Topic 3: Edge Tech+
    • Panasonic will exhibit Unified-HMI demo.
    • No further update

  • Topic 4: ALS
    • Panasonic will have three sessions.
      • First: Jerry for general SDV topic
      • Second: Kuzu for technical topic about virtio
      • Third: Unified HMI topic
      • Jerry, Jiancong Zhao  and kazuki kuzu : email Walt until next Tuesday.
        Title, speaker , etc...
    • Naoto YAMAGUCHI 
      Currently discussing internally about what type of session will have.
    • VOSYS
      • submitted one session about virtio-loopback.

-----------------------

12/5~12/6 Open Source Summit Japan

12/5 Jerry, Jiancong Zhao  General SDV-EG presentation

12/6 Breakout sessions

  • kazuki kuzu  - Cloud-native VirtIO → Kuzu-san is not available on 5th
  • Panasonic Engineer - Unified HMI
  • Michele Paolino  - VirtIO-loopback (Non-HV VirtIO use cases)

12/7~12/8 AGL F2FWorkshop



Oct 3, 2023

Attendees:

Agenda: 

  • Topic 1: Topic form SAT
    • Inter-VM Communication
      Wait until kazuki kuzu -san come back to lead the discussion (wink)

  • Topic 2: Non-HV VirtIO activities
  • Topic 3: Edge Tech+
    • Panasonic will exhibit Unified-HMI demo.
    • No further update

  • Topic 4: ALS
    • Panasonic will have three sessions.
      • First: Jerry for general SDV topic
      • Second: Kuzu for technical topic about virtio
      • Third: Unified HMI topic
      • Jerry, Jiancong Zhao  and kazuki kuzu : email Walt until next Tuesday.
        Title, speaker , etc...
    • Naoto YAMAGUCHI 
      Currently discussing internally about what type of session will have.
    • VOSYS
      • submitted one session about virtio-loopback.

-----------------------

12/5~12/6 Open Source Summit Japan

12/5 Jerry, Jiancong Zhao  General SDV-EG presentation

12/6 Breakout sessions

  • kazuki kuzu  - Cloud-native VirtIO → Kuzu-san is not available on 5th
  • Panasonic Engineer - Unified HMI
  • Michele Paolino  - VirtIO-loopback (Non-HV VirtIO use cases)

12/7~12/8 AGL F2FWorkshop



Oct 17, 2023

Attendees:

Agenda: 


Oct 31, 2023

Attendees:

Agenda: 

  • Topic 1: CES AGL Booth
    • Jerry will final check inside Panasonic about attending AGL Booth this year (plan to be platnium level)
      • Walt Miner to double confirm with event team about securing the place.
      • Walt Miner  to check with event team if there is already any infomation about logistics (by when and to where to ship the demo sets
    • CES AGL community demo:
      • Container based demo :
        • virtio-loopback-snd is used
        • Current status: virito-loopback sound is already working
          • virito-loopback-audio
          • Two audio stream from two frontend to use one single backend is not yet supported
            • However, there is an alternative to have two backends each one connected with one frontend
          • If any help is needed, Michele is able to support
          • Next Step: Yamaguchi-san will check the commit first.
            • P.8 will be a feasible option for CES implementation but need an additional coordinator to coordinate the priority of different audio streams.
      • Hypevisor based demo : KVM based - AGL UCB master
      • A demo from Toyota Joel (question) 
  • Topic 2: EdgeTech
  • Topic 3: ALS
    • Dec 4 Integration & Debugging Session for the AGL official Demo → maybe on 7 or 8 instead
    • Dec 5~6 ALS
    • Dec 7~8 AGL Workshop? 
  • Topic 4: Inter-VM Communication by kazuki kuzu 
  • Topic 5: Non-HV VirtIO implementation
    • 2023 - Common Device I/F between Virt-AGL and Non-Virt AGL - Phase 2
    • virtio-loopback version virtio-snd is already done.
    • Whether the AGL official demo is still needing this feature?
      • virtio-snd for hypervisor is needed
      • Michele has already verifed vhost-virtio-snd on KVM but not in the current commit plan
      • Scott suggested to put directly to the eg-virt for the vhost-virtio-snd receipe by  


Nov 14, 2023

Attendees:

Agenda: 

  • Topic 1: CES AGL Booth
    • Jerry will final check inside Panasonic about attending AGL Booth this year (plan to be platnium level)
      • Walt Miner to double confirm with event team about securing the place.
      • Walt Miner  to check with event team if there is already any infomation about logistics (by when and to where to ship the demo sets
    • CES AGL community demo:
      • yamaguchi-san has already check the commit for virtio-loopback, and it's fine.
      • next step: integrate the virtio-loopback
        • following is need for integration
  • Topic 2: EdgeTech
  • Topic 3: ALS
    • Dec 4 Integration & Debugging Session for the AGL official Demo → maybe on 7 or 8 instead
    • Dec 5~6 ALS
    • Dec 7~8 AGL Workshop? 
  • Topic 4: Inter-VM Communication by kazuki kuzu 
    • Hypervisor Cell →  Skip this team due to absence of Kuzu-san
    • Not enough update, move to next time.
  • Topic 5: Non-HV VirtIO implementation
    • Code review has already started.
      • virtio-adaptor and loopback-driver
    • the device side development
      • virtio-can: well progress
      • virtio-gpu: one or two weeks will good for make stable



Dec 12, 2023


Agenda: 

  • No labels

11 Comments

  1. Bernard Craddock

    Jerry, Jiancong Zhao it seems we're missing some additional meeting notes that were taken last night, will you update?  

    1. Jerry, Jiancong Zhao

      Hi Bernad, thanks for reminding me. Just updated!

  2. Bernard Craddock

    Jerry, Jiancong Zhao 

    I've put pumped_end_device (PED) AGL release on hold whilst Joel works through the requirements to resolve the 1P Linux Plugin issue. This is beyond me so leaving in his capable hands we can assist downstream.

    As far as flutter is concerned, we could pick up where the GSoc projects left off IC, HVAC, Media, Navigation etc and continue with those bypassing the pub.dev 1P Linux plugins and writing our own. Which you understand requires another layer of work and understanding from our side requiring much closer interaction with AGL engineers/capabilities.

    As far as containers is concerned, we've actually got considerable AWS experience so reasonably confident we could add a lot of value there.

    As far as use-cases are concerned I’ve always considered PED a viable candidate, but of course I’m biased and only guessing.

    Lastly, I'm completely in agreement with what Scott said i.e., we don't build anything without Inter-EG full support, cooperation, and OEM buy-in, and to that end I’ve sent you a separate email with my thoughts, if it's not in your inbox check your spam - regards Bernard

    1. Jerry, Jiancong Zhao

      > As far as flutter is concerned, we could pick up where the GSoc projects left off IC, HVAC, Media, Navigation etc and continue with those bypassing the pub.dev 1P Linux plugins and writing our own. Which you understand requires another layer of work and understanding from our side requiring much closer interaction with AGL engineers/capabilities.
      Do you know anyone is familiar with that project?

      > As far as containers is concerned, we've actually got considerable AWS experience so reasonably confident we could add a lot of value there.

      Correct. I talked with AWS last week. One engineer from them who is also involved in SOAFEE and Eclipse SDV will join the new EG and I believe his expertise can help the situation.

      > As far as use-cases are concerned I’ve always considered PED a viable candidate, but of course I’m biased and only guessing.
      Maybe if we have time, you may introduce a little bit about PED in next/next next EG?

      > and to that end I’ve sent you a separate email with my thoughts, if it's not in your inbox check your spam
      I saw it but haven't been able to response you due to occupied schedule. Let me give back my opinions within this week.

  3. Bernard Craddock

    Walt, Scott and Jan-Simon are all familiar at differing levels with the GSoc apps, and when they were active, I was monitoring the commits had a couple of chats with Aakash and Hritik, and Aakash talked me through how to build and run his IC demo, and it's a good start.

    Sure, I can talk you through PED but note it is a business level app "Connecting vehicle drivers with Merchants"

    As for my email, no worries, take your time lots to digest and not expecting a quick reply

  4. Bernard Craddock

    Hi Jerry - As briefly mentioned i reviewed AMM decks including yours, and was personally very interested in George's Complex Camera, Video Arch enabled by PipeWire and Joels' Flutter - Graphical Plugins, as they both touched on libcamera in combination with AI/ML having the promise of IC features such as turn signal, driver facing eye detect, Speed, Road sign and Tail Gate camera detection etc, as flutter could be an ideal end device tech stack for this.

    Magnus API-first Principles presentation was also very enlightening as he clearly stated his challenges/concern around "How to coordinate software dev across multiple ECUs, Departments and Carlines" - how to manage cross-vehicle solutions having multiple ECUs, carlines, markets and configurations, how to combine AUTOSAR and POSIX without tripping each other up -  a huge challenge indeed. 

    They have their MB.OS ASPICE compliant 4 principles manifesto but need Open Vehicle API standards transparent between cloud and vehicle this is where our AWS friends can help.

    They're initially exploring FOSS pilot to validate the Comfort API (don't know what that is, perhaps could utilize  kuksa.val) and possibly extend it for business logic implementation

    He ends stating it's not a call to arms, but is the start of a conversation what can we do next, which is a Discovery foot in the door 

    Discovery Phase in Project Management: The Ultimate Guide (teamly.com)


    regards


  5. Bernard Craddock

    Some additional thoughts on what SDV could focus on in relation to other EG's and through Discovery bring it up with Mercedes   

    As we know SDV is both a huge challenge and opportunity especially for the OEM's not signing into the Apple & Google ecosystems

    These OEM's can identify their issues and concerns but probably struggle to formulate a plan and solution to address it 
    hence the requirement for discovery to thrash out all ideas, including consumer (vehicle occupant) input 
    i.e "What do the consumers want" that neither Apple nor Google can provide.

    If we can identify that and provide a plan/solution for it, then we have a chance. Otherwise, we need to ask ourselves why would anyone use us when they're already hooked on Apple or Google.

    I think the differentiator is probably AI/ML, which from a safety ADAS feature perspective, incredible as it is, may not be enough as it's what the consumer needs but not necessarily what they want.

    Consider a hypothetical "I want" conversation between the consumer and AI

      - Where's the nearest open fuel/EV station and what are their prices. I also need to buy some oil do they have any on special?
      - I'm hungry where's the nearest MacDonalds?
      - Where is the nearest clean public restrooms, public parking?
      - I need to pickup product X on my way home from work.
      - Plan me a cross state trip optimising rest stops for refuelling/charging, that have restaurants/shopping and optionally
        suggest some tourist lookout spots.
      - My engine/battery safety light keeps coming on can you diagnose it for me, and provide options?
      - My car needs a service book it in for me.

    Six months ago if anyone suggested this, we would have laughed but today the technology exists and it's neither Apple nor Google

    I'll leave it there for now - regards

  6. ramalingaprasad tadepalli

    Jerry, i am from KPIT Technologies and not from Redhat.

    1. Jerry, Jiancong Zhao

      Thanks for correcting me. Updated.

  7. du haquang

    Jerry, Jiancong Zhao  i can not found the slide of meeting 2023/05/16 that focus solution of HARMAN company, but i have a confusion about executing of automotive/OS platform. 
         - can they play with multi platform same time in vehicle?
         - how they play audio in case support play multi-platform in same time in vehicle?

    ..
    could you attach the slide into the confuluence?

    1. Jerry, Jiancong Zhao

      Paul Mundt , if it's okay for you, would you mind attaching your slides to the EG confluence page?
      May16,2023

      du haquang , I think you can discuss the questions your raised directly in the next EG call.